Man, answering them conservativing questions is hard work!

I'll bite.

Did Bill Clinton have anything to do with Vince Foster's death?

There is no evidence of this. Someone other than Vince Foster killed Vince Foster but, "who", is like finding "who" killed Jimmy Hoffa.

Did Janet Reno kill innocent people in Waco TX?

No, but she did send in the FBI and bulldozers and make a siege on the compound. The building caught fire and the people inside were so committed to their beliefs that they stayed and died. What she did as the person at the top, and you will understand this because you blame President Bush for everything, was take to many extreme measures to capture this guy that was such a threat. A month before the siege they could have simply picked him up in town while he was there shopping.

I have no idea. No one person really wanted to get to the bottom of that one. I know they were fighting back awfully hard so something was up. What really interested me was Hillary's extreme shrewdness with her Tyson Chicken investment. But you didn't mention that so neither will I.

Did Bill Clinton sexually harass Paula Jones?

Even the most powerful man in the world ended up paying this trailer park trash (as Carville described her) a settlement. Now why the settlement if she didn't have a claim, I am not sure.

Did the Clintons do anything wrong in the White House Travel office incident?

Unethical in old democrat ways. Common place for the new democrat ways.

Is Fox News a fair and balanced source of news?

Compared to CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN and your favorite Al-Jazeera. Yeah. But that is up to the viewer to decide isn't it? Don't you understand capitalism even a little bit. American Idol didn't win in it's slot last week. You know why? Cause people have remotes. Something always knocks these folks off their perch. If the folks don't believe it then it won't last. Ask Rather, he pulled third place forever. Do you want to decide what people watch? Do you want someone else to decide what you watch?

Does CNN have a political leaning?

I will say that if Fox News has a political leaning then so does CNN. Yes.

Thanks. I knew you wouldn't resist.

No Paul. How did that prove any thing?

The very fact that you don't see it tells me and everyone else here everything we need to know.

How fucking childish.

Nobody forced you to answer.

So basically you are saying that if you say anything that any other democrat says that you are just an automaton. Remember the Air National Guard story. Yeah I thought you would, robot. Now all you have to do is swing your arms in circles and say "Danger, Danger, Will Robinson"

There's a difference between loony conspiracy theories and the truth. The difference between those that think Bill Clinton is a murderer or even a criminal and those that think he's just a liar and cheater (i.e. a politician). The difference between those that think George Bush knew about 9/11 and let it happen and those that think he's just plain wrong and using Christianity to advance his secular agenda, among other sins (i.e. a politician).

I know I fall more towards the latter category for both men and I also know you fall more towards the former concerning the Clintons. As your responses illustrate.

And yes, all the evidence shows that Dubya went AWOL from the ANG. Keyword: evidence

The same evidence that got Mary Mapes fired. The same evidence that got Rather sidelined.

The fact that you fall toward the latter I guess means you are an automaton because I have already heard others say the same thing. You were not original so you are not thinking for yourself.

LOL. Mary Mapes and Dan Rather. Be careful not to get your right-wing spew on my shoes.

I'm talking about his service records, available to anyone with Google. Take the time to look at them yourself. If you don't reach the same conclusion I'll buy you lunch.

First, the point of this particular blog entry was to ridicule me for not thinking for myself. I am just stating you have never had an original thought that I am aware of. So you're in the same boat. Er.. Make it another boat like mine.

If this evidence is so easy to google, then why the fake documents on CBS? Seems silly to tarnish your reputation when there is already so much evidence on the web. Just an FYI Scrappleface and The Onion are just parody sites. My guess is that if I do a Google search on Vince Foster, Travelgate, Filegate the gates to hell I will probably find someone there that believes they have evidence against the Clintons. Should I believe that, too? Seeing as how President Bush has been elected for his final term you are chasing a dead rabbit. But feel free to waste your time if you wish. That is why I really don't want to search on President Clinton as well. It's done. Trying to find evidence against them is not going to accomplish anything. If Hillary runs and gets elected POTUS I am sure we will hear about this all over again. I hope not.

Hey, you brought it up. Here are Bush's military records obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request.

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm

I realize you probably won't, but the offer to buy you lunch if you don't end up agreeing with me still stands.

The only reason I brought it up was because you were telling me how I mention anything Rush or Ann or Bill has talked about I was an automaton. But you can regurgitate the same story over and over after Michael, Barbra and the other professional complainers have beaten it to death yet you believe you are having original thoughts. Talk about disingenuous.

Ron,

Maybe I can help out here with the communication problem. As a former liberal, I think I'm qualified.

First, you need a copy of the Democratic Party Dogma handbook. Second, you must read it and agree with everything in it. Then and only then will you be thinking for yourself. After completing these steps, you will be issued your official SAL (Smug Arrogant Liberal) card. At that point you are allowed to consider your position so superior to others that disagree with you that you are no longer required to present any arguments to back up your positions. You can simply say things like "The very fact that you don't see it tells me and everyone else here everything we need to know."

Hope that helps.

Randy,

Yeah, Paul's comment really blew me away too. I thought I was dealing with intelligent lifeforms. That is the way my 15 year old responds to most everything, so I am used to it. You should see how they react when you mention Ann Coulter. It's like getting out Kryptonite. If you listen to Rush they think you get together every afternoon for a mind meld. It's hilarious to listen them go on and on. I could drive them all mad by always replying with "well, Rush said" or "well, Ann said". If I said "Bill Buckley said" they'd go "who"?

I sure would like to have one of those SAL cards. If a Democrat ever gets elected to the Whitehouse again I understand one of those cards and a $2,000 hard money donation will rent out the Lincoln bedroom.

Randy,
Are you still a idiotarian or have you gone completely over to the dark side? I'll admit there's a certain amount of groupthink among liberals, just look at how Lawrence Summer's comments were taken, but facts are facts and I asked Ron some very simple questions to see if he'd just regurgitate the standard conservative dogma. He did.

But since you apparently think I'm being a snobby elitist I'll respond to him in detail.

"Someone other than Vince Foster killed Vince Foster" - Oh really? Where's the evidence of this? This is a loony conspiracy theory repeated by Republican talking heads on the most extreme right-wing news sources. This is like me suggesting that Bush allowed 9/11 to happen.

"What really interested me was Hillary's extreme shrewdness with her Tyson Chicken investment" - Again, another piece of right-wing horseshit but I'm the elitist because I don't explicitly refute it. Why should I? The debunking of all Clinton financial crimes was accomplished by the independent councils office at great expense to you and me.

"Now why the settlement if she didn't have a claim, I am not sure." - Because people settle claims like this without admitting guilt all the time. The Clinton-hating judge in the case eventually tossed out the case saying that even if Clinton had made a pass at her it wasn't sexual harassment and there's no evidence her employment was affected. Entire books have been written on the subject and only the looniest of loony right-wingers still think that after the report of the independent council and the exposure of the money and payoffs surrounding this case that was Clinton did anything illegal.

"Unethical in old democrat ways. Common place for the new democrat ways." - Did you know that one of the people Hillary had fired, the director of the White House Travel office, was prosecuted by the Justice Department? But firing him was unethical? Ok then.

"Compared to CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN and your favorite Al-Jazeera. Yeah." - LOL. Have you seen the daily memos sent out by John Moody, Senior Vice President, on how the day's news is to be reported? Read: http://www.wonkette.com/politics/media/fox-news-memos-the-whole-batch-017613.php

So am I really a liberal elitist guilty of groupthink for believing...
- The report of the independent council that could hardly be described as non-partisan and cost around $60,000,000 to complete?
- The opinion of a Clinton-hating judge about the merits of Paula Jones' lawsuit?
- The clearly partisan language send daily to Fox News reporters and their staff on how the news is to be portrayed?

Assuming all of those sources of information are accurate, which of us is guilty of groupthink, me or Ron?

Paul wrote "Are you still a idiotarian or have you gone completely over to the dark side?"

I see from other places in your blog that you are involved in Democracy for Tennessee. I assume that organization is trying to better organize the Democratic party in hopes of getting more Democrats elected in the future. "Take Back Tennessee" or whatever. I would think one of the goals of any political organization is to rally voter support and get them more involved in your party. Might I comment that your particular technique for trying to accomplish this sucks. If you just want to be an angry blogger, you pretty much have that pegged. If you want to convince anyone (other than the choir) that the Democratic party has anything to offer them, you should consider refining your communication skills and general attitude.

Now to answer your question (even though you didn't ask it in a sincere manner. Everyone besides you is an idiot. Right, Paul?). I'm an independent voter. In the last election, I voted for the Democrats because the Republicans currently have too much power. Of course, there are many other reasons behind my voting preferences.

This blog is fairly separate from DFT. What we're interested in is first getting people that already consider themselves to be Democrats to actually get involved with the party. I'm not the slightest bit interested in trying to change the mind of someone like Ron.

Don't call me a smug arrogant liberal unless you can back it up. You certainly shouldn't expect to escape without an insult thrown back. The fact is that you're a libertarian and in case you hadn't noticed, libertarianism has about as much chance of ever working as communism. It's political theory based on social darwinism and anarchy. So before you call someone a SAL you might want to check the nearest mirror.

This thread is about Ron and his closed off right-wing world. You turned it around on me as though I'm another owner of the Democratic dogma handbook. I state my frustration at Congressman Ford and am accused of eating my own kind but I'm still an ideologue that's towing the party line? That's a contradictory argument and that's Ron's argument.

Thanks for joining in.

Oh and Ron, I know who William F. Buckley is. I hope you're not trying to compare the inane rants of Ann Coulter to the very intelligent writings of "Bill" Buckley. Not that I agree with him mind you, I just doubt the man would appreciate the comparison. Didn't Ms. Coulter get summarily shit-canned from his magazine National Review?

Paul - I didn't call you a smug arrogant liberal. I pointed out something that you said that was smug and arrogant. My initial post in this thread was intended to make fun of all liberals (including myself even though I'm a liberal-in-recovery) not just you. You can hurl insults back at me all you want. Doesn't bother me. I can laugh at myself assuming the insult is humorous. Am I smug and arrogant? You betcha. More arrogant than smug though. I don't really hold my positions on political issues near and dear. They have changed over time and I'm sure they will probably change some more as I gain new life experiences and reconsider my positions. I don't claim to have it all figured out.

And, yes I'm a libertarian in idealogy. Do I think this country could and should operate under a libertarian government? No. That's why I don't vote libertarian and don't belong to the libertarian party. I try to view the world for how it really is, not how I want it to be. Not always easy since we all have biases that affect our world view. But, my point is that I have realized that there is a large gap between my idealogies and what could be realistically implemented in our society. As a society, we do have certain responsibilities to our citizens. Naturally there are going to be disagreements about how much responsibility society has to it's citizens. That is to be expected.

Paul - don't assume that you understand my political and philosophical positions considering that we have had very few conversations about these topics. If you really want to know, ask. And, I will show you the same respect.

Now can we argue about who gets the last word?

"As new DNC Chairman Howard Dean might say, it's all over but the screaming."

I lifted that from Ann Coulter's March 9, column.

Randy,
I apologize for getting my claws out. I took your SAL comment personally and if you didn't mean it that way then I'm sorry.

No worries. I understand tone is hard to read in online messages. I wouldn't intentionally insult you. But, I would most definitely poke fun at you, me, and just about anyone else.

BTW, just for future reference I prefer loonytarian over idiotarian.